In this week's Jen’s Jewels, we dive into the world of modern media with Holly Baxter, author of the captivating debut novel CLICKBAIT. Baxter explores the chaotic and ethically murky world of clickbait journalism through the eyes of a once-successful journalist, Natasha, whose life unravels after a career-ending mistake. Set against the desolate backdrop of Rockaway Beach, CLICKBAIT blends dark comedy with serious themes, offering a sharp critique of today’s media landscape. Join us as Holly Baxter shares the inspiration behind her book, the complexities of her flawed protagonist, and her thoughts on balancing humor with darker, more serious undertones. Whether you're a fan of sharp satire or just curious about the inner workings of a newsroom, this conversation is not to be missed!
Jennifer Vido: What inspired you to write about a disgraced journalist's journey in the world of clickbait media?
Holly Baxter: I’m the kind of sunny, optimistic person who always likes to think about the worst-case scenario - and as a journalist and a (fairly) recently married person, I decided to turn those anxieties into a book. I made Natasha make the worst mistake possible in her job that was still plausible and dumped her in the worst newsroom I could spin up. Then I made her screw up her marriage. I borrowed from my extensive experience in journalism - in a number of different newsrooms - and my extensive experience of doing stupid things in relationships. And I found it kind of enjoyable to work within those constraints, like I was exploring what my life would look like without boundaries or impulse control.
Jen: The main character, Natasha, seems to be going through quite a rough patch. How did you craft her story?
Holly: I think Natasha is a person who has made a few bad choices and is too stubborn to acknowledge how bad they were. She digs her heels in and lashes out at people around her who try to give her some perspective. She is very good at diagnosing problems in her clickbait-obsessed newsroom or among other people, but she can’t apply that critical eye to her own life.
I know some readers might find Natasha’s choices infuriating, but I thought it was important to show her still using her problematic impulses after her fall from grace. Because it would just be too simple if she immediately learned every lesson she was supposed to learn just because her actions had consequences.
A lot of narratives are focused on the slow climb to the top from the bottom, and I thought it would be interesting to say: What if someone started at the top - in terms of privilege, career, luck in relationships, and so on - and then hit rock bottom just as it was all supposed to come together? What happens to the most-likely-to-succeeds when they burn out too soon?
Jen: I love the idea of setting part of the story in Rockaway Beach. What made you choose that location?
Holly: I liked the idea of showing through geography that Natasha was somewhat “marooned” by her decisions and choices. And I thought that she would probably want to remain in New York, but also might be drawn to the ocean, which reminded her of where she grew up.
I’ve been to the Rockaways a few times in the summer, but I first visited in the winter, when it was completely desolate. It has a whole different vibe then, and the beach feels so vast. It’s amazing that you have this huge stretch of coastline so close to the city yet so far atmospherically.
Also, I figured there are enough stories set around where I live in Brooklyn these days!
Jen: The term "churnalism" is intriguing. Can you tell us more about how you researched this aspect of modern media?
Holly: I’ve worked as a journalist in newsrooms for over a decade, so my research was really done through immersion. But it’s not like I saw everything I describe up close: a lot of it was based on what I heard at journalism meet-ups, or where I see newsgathering going in the near future.
Journalism used to be this old white boys’ club that dictated to the masses what they should know, and so when I criticize the clickbait side of things, I’m not suggesting we go back to that. What I think is a problem is when reporters and editors start seeing their readers as either total fools or coin purses to be shaken until they’re empty.
Jen: Natasha's relationship with her ex-boyfriend Zach sounds complicated. How did you approach writing their dynamic?
Holly: I think a slightly predatory, hyper-sexual female character is something that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, and Natasha is that. Her relationship with Zach is complex - she thinks she’s acquiescing to him all the time, and that she’s the submissive person in the relationship, when really, she’s very subtly controlling. I wanted to show how her darker instincts - the ones that caused her to get canceled in the first place after her inappropriate dalliance with an interviewee - looked when applied to someone she’d had a relationship with in the past. Zach himself is no angel; he’s kind of like the pseudo-intellectual millennial fuckboy everyone dated in the 2010s. But he’s also vulnerable.
I think there’s been more of a turn toward examining women and their weirdest, darkest sexual impulses recently, such as in Julia May Jonas’ Vladimir and Miranda July’s All Fours.
Jen: As a debut novelist, what was the most surprising part of the writing and publishing process for you?
Holly: The editing process was more challenging and involved than I imagined, in a good way. It was amazing to sit down with my editor over coffee and for her to talk about my characters as if they were real people, working out their motivations and even telling me when, in her opinion, they’d said or done things that didn’t actually suit them. It’s very intense, and unlike any other professional project I’ve ever worked on - even in journalism, which is purportedly similar.
I also got a real kick out of the copy-editing side of the process, where someone goes through every single claim you’ve made with a fine-tooth comb. We hashed it out over dates of swimming competitions, and I even had to go to Streeteasy to make sure I had the right kind of doors leading onto Natasha’s balcony in her Rockaways apartment.
When people pay such attention to detail in your work, it really shows how seriously they take it. I found it very reassuring.
Jen: The book seems to have elements of dark comedy. How do you balance humor with more serious themes?
Holly: As a Brit, sarcasm is my first language - I feel like I reach for dark comedy a lot when I need to make a point. I spent years as a satire writer in the newsroom, doing rapid-response pieces to political developments, so I learned to flex that muscle a lot. I think you can get through to people with humor in a way that you can’t if you’re pontificating or taking yourself too seriously. And ultimately, the dark humor in the novel comes from pushing realistic situations to their most absurd conclusions, which is a good way to make people think about where we’re headed if we carry on down certain ethical paths.
Jen: What’s the best way for readers to stay connected with you?
Holly: Instagram is my drug of choice. I’m not a big tweeter post-Elon; most of my Twitter/X DMs are just men telling me that they hate my opinions on the Republican National Convention. Personally, I love an email! I’m old-fashioned like that.
Jen: What’s on your TBR stack?
Holly: Like most of the world, I can’t wait to get my teeth into Sally Rooney’s latest, Intermezzo. And I’m also really looking forward to reading Hyeseung Song’s memoir Docile, Jonathan Escoffery’s If I Survive You and Edgar Gomez’s High Risk Homosexual, all of which I just bought this week.
Jen: Thanks for stopping by to chat about CLICKBAIT. I can’t wait to see what’s next!
Holly: It’s very much in the early stages but I’m working on something about a mother who’s a retired TV psychiatrist and her two, very different daughters. Hopefully I can come back in the future and answer some questions about that one!
With the dark comedy and sharp observations of Monica Heisey and Dolly Alderton, a whip-smart and laugh-out-loud funny debut novel about a disgraced, newly divorced journalist demoted to a “clickbait” job at a Manhattan tabloid.
The first thing they tell you when you begin your training is never to become the news.
Natasha has screwed up royally. Her mistake isn’t just embarrassing, it's a breach of journalistic ethics that makes headlines and costs her a plum job reporting from London. Back in New York at thirty-five and single, divorced from a kind man she loved, she finds herself at the bottom of the media food chain—a junior reporter at a clickbait factory, rewriting sensational tabloid stories to make them just different enough to avoid lawsuits.
As if her professional fall from grace weren’t bad enough, she’s taken the money she’d saved for a down payment for a home on a charming Brooklyn block with her husband, and rashly bought a boxy apartment overlooking the gray ocean in Rockaway Beach, Queens.
Though seeing friends and family only serves to remind her of what she’s lost, things begin to pick up when her ex-boyfriend Zach moves back to New York and accepts her offer of a spare bedroom. The arrangement is strictly platonic, of course—for him. But Natasha can't help but wonder whether he might be the solution to all her problems.
As Natasha's obsession with Zach grows and her involvement in increasingly dystopian "churnalism" deepens, her worlds threaten to collide in the most cataclysmic, extremely public way.
Fantasy Urban | Romance [Harper Perennial, On Sale: August 13, 2024, Paperback / e-Book, ISBN: 9780063375765 / eISBN: 9780063375772]
Holly Baxter is an executive editor and staff writer at the Independent in New York. She has experience in generating clicks on both sides of the Atlantic, having worked in the Independent’s London office as a reporter for three years. Her work was shortlisted for a Press Award for Feature of the Year in 2019 and she often appears on British radio and television. Baxter lives in Brooklyn, New York.
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